Saturday, March 25, 2006

Be It Done Unto Me According To Your Word...

Eve's NO!

The woman saw that the tree was good for food, pleasing to the eyes, and desirable for gaining wisdom. So she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. (Genesis 1: 6)


Did you ever wonder why we (meaning Catholics) venerate Mary? (not worship...we do not worship Mary...no matter what some Protestants may have been told) I think if you asked most Catholics, they really couldn't give a good answer.


The above Bible passage is a continuation from my previous post. It's Eve's response to Satan as he tempts her with the Tree of Knowledge. She looks at the tree and even though God tells her not to eat it, she eats it anyway.

Then she gives it to her husband to eat too.


And then man falls.


Note that Man falls through Adam's sin and not Eve's. Paul affirms in the New Testament that Adam's sin is what caused the downfall of man and not Eve's response to Satan. It's only after Adam eats of the fruit that they realize that they were naked.

(Side Note: They were always naked! When they ate from the fruit, it's the first time that they took their eyes off of God and on to themselves...and felt shame.)


Unfortunately, it was Eve's initial, "NO!" that led to Adam's sin which led to the Fall.


Mary's YES!
In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary. And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you." But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." But Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?" And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren; for nothing will be impossible for God." Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word." (Luke 1: 26-38)


Today, March 25, is the Catholic Feast Day of the Annunciation. If you're Protestant and you're not sure what that means, it's the day that the Archangel Gabriel announced to Mary that she has found favor with God and will bear His Son. This is the logical day to celebrate it as it's nine months before Christmas Day.

Imagine how Mary must have felt. She was probably around 13 years old...although the age doesn't really matter. Single but betrothed and a virgin. And an angel appears to her and says you're gonna have God's Son. Her whole life was about to change. She lived in a small town. People were going to talk. Perhaps snicker at a pregnant young girl. Rumors were probably going to spread. And she had no clue as to how Joseph was going to respond to all of this.


What's her response?


"Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word."

(Side Note: Her "How can this be..." is not a question of disbelief of God as Zechariah did, "How shall I know this?" for which he was struck mute. Hers is more of a "What's it gonna take to make this happen..." statement. At least that's how I've been taught it.)


And at that moment, her "Yes!" sets the foundation for the restoration of mankind.

Her "Yes!" was necessary to fix Eve's "No!"

So as Man falls through Adam's Original rejection of God (caused by Eve's "NO!"), Man is redeemed through Jesus Christ's obedience to God (caused by Mary's "YES!").

This is why Catholics hold Mary in such high regard. We call her the "New Eve" as Jesus Christ is called the "New Adam."

This is the understanding of the Catholic Church today and it's the understanding of the early Church Fathers all the way back to the first century.

We need to hold her as a model. We need to live a life like hers. When we hear what God wants from us--no matter how much it affects us...no matter how inconvenient it may be.

We need to say "YES!"


The Hail Mary

Hail Mary! Full of Grace! The Lord is with thee! (Luke 1:28)
Blessed are thou amongst women
And blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus (Luke 1: 42)

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now...and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

8 comments:

Modern Day Magi said...

hey theden,
What a great connection between Eve's "no" and Mary's "yes". All the fear she would have felt, the anxiety, nervousness and yet she submitted to the will of God. This is a great lesson for all Christians.
I will take issue with this post though. (You were probably expecting this)
you said:
Did you ever wonder why we venerate Mary? not worship...we do not worship Mary...

To venerate someone/something is to hold them/it in awe and reverence. Venerating Mary is not what scripture teaches us to do. In fact it is plainly contrary to this.
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."
He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

- Luke 11:27-28
Mary is blessed, she was Jesus mother, and as such probably had the closest relationship to Him while He was on earth. Jesus Himself though is fairly clear that she is no more blesed than any believer.

I also will strongly object to the "Hail Mary" prayer. This is not correct. To begin with Jesus says about prayer that we should pray to the Father, not anyone else. Also that "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
- Matthew 6:6-8
When praying with rosaries I understand that it begins with the Lords prayer or an "Our Father" but as the prayers continue there are 10 "Hail Marys" to each "Our Father". This is WAY out of proportion, even ignoring that we should only be praying to God in the first place.
It is also my understanding that Mary is exalted as the Mother of God and is venerated as the Queen of Heaven. The bible however, says that we should "...praise the name of the LORD, for his name ALONE is exalted; his splendor is above the earth and the heavens."
- Psalm 148:13

This comment is not meant with any malice or desire for conflict. My desire is simply (as you have said yourself) to draw nearer to God. I like you theden, I enjoy reading your posts and insights into scripture. I want to encourage you to seek Him more, as He is faithful to those who love Him. I do not want to argue about what I have said although I expect you will want to respond, and should, this is your blog after all and I am only a guest here. What I will ask though is that you consider my words about the veneration of Mary. I am not here to belittle your faith or refute your claim to be a child of God. I do however, believe that you have been misled in this area, Mary was given a unique role in God's plan of redemption this is true, she was still merely an ordinary woman though, no more, no less.

Again though, great link between Mary and Eve, one I probably would always have overlooked. Thank you.

MDM

TheDen said...

Hey MDM,

Sorry it’s taken so long to get back with you. I’m on the road right now (outside of Chicago) and it’s been tough for me to sit down and write.

Thank you as always for reading and commenting on my post. I figured that this post may cause a little bit of controversy. I’m not expecting anyone who doesn’t venerate Mary now to start venerating her after reading my post.

Also, this isn’t my personal interpretation. What I am writing is the interpretation taught by the Catholic Church (some of the stuff I write is my own personal interpretation but most of it I’ve read or heard before).

First of all, I would like to say that there are some Catholics who do carry the veneration of Mary too far. There are some Catholics who may elevate Mary to the same status as Jesus (or maybe close enough where they are paying more attention to her than they are to Him).

This is wrong and this is not what the church teaches.

Is veneration of Mary unscriptural?

I guess we will disagree on this. Mary is not an “ordinary woman…no more…no less. “

“Behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed” (Luke 1:48)

The Catholic Church is following Scripture when we venerate her for she will be called blessed for the rest of eternity. She says in Luke that she is not an ordinary woman.

Regarding Luke 11: 27-28 , Jesus is not taking anything away from His mother. Instead, I think (i.e. my personal interpretation) what He’s saying is that His mother is not blessed because she nursed Him and cared for Him but rather because she “heard the word of God and observed it.” What He’s saying in Luke 28 is that we need to be like His mother and do the same thing (which is what I also noted in my post.) It’s not important that she nursed Him but rather that she heard the word of God and observed it.

Regarding prayer to the Father in secret, I think that this is one way to pray that Jesus recommends. Not the only way. If we just followed that, we shouldn’t pray at all to Jesus or the Holy Spirit. We shouldn’t pray in church or at all in public. I think we can both agree that His intention for His recommendation is that we don’t make a spectacle out of our prayer so that all can see how great we pray. Regarding babbling like Pagans, I think what He means is that we should always pray from the heart. Are there Catholics who are just spewing out Hail Marys or Our Fathers without thinking about it? YES and this is wrong. If we pray the Hail Mary (or the Our Father or any prayer) we must pray it from the heart. I still fall into this category more often than I care to recall. I’m not familiar with my Protestant brethren but I would imagine that this could happen there just as easily with them too.

Additionally, I agree that we should only praise God. We don’t praise Mary. We ask her to pray for us. We ask her for help. This also is scriptural. In John 2, she approaches Jesus and tells them that “they have no wine.” The servants don’t go to Jesus for help. They go to Mary who immediately appeals to Jesus. If we are good servants, we also can go to Mary for help and she will go to Jesus for us. Her direction to us will be the same as the servants, “Do whatever He tells you.”

I can discuss the “Queen of Heaven” but I think I’ll pass for now. If you’re truly interested, it has to do with Revelation and David and his mother.

Regarding the Rosary, I’ll be honest with you. If I pray two rosaries a year, that’s a good year. I probably need to pray it more. There’s a very nice history to the Hail Mary. Bear in mind that for many many years, the average Christian could not read and as such could not read Scripture.

The original rosary consisted of 15 decades which means 15 Our Fathers and 150 Hail Marys. The reason for the 150 is that it represents the 150 Psalms. As the workers were out in the field, they prayed the prayers that they knew to represent the 150 Psalms. The 15 decades are split into 3 sets of mysteries: The Joyful, The Sorrowful, and the Glorious. (Pope John Paul II added one more set called the Luminous a few years back). Anyhow, each set of mysteries reflects on aspects of the life of Jesus (and two mysteries are about Mary). All of them are Scripturally based (the two on Mary are kind of a stretch regarding Scripture) and the intention is that when you pray the Hail Mary’s, you reflect on the specific mystery.

Honestly, I don’t think most Catholics even know how to correctly pray the rosary.

Regarding Mary, as you come to her for help, she will immediately point you to her Son as she did the servants in John 2 and as you get closer to Mary, you get closer to her Son.

There’s more to this but I think this is enough for now.

I like you too and I know that you’re not trying to pick a fight. I hope I’m putting interesting stuff up on my blog and I don’t expect everyone to agree with it.

MDM, I sense Christ in you which I honestly can’t say about everyone (Catholics or non-Catholics).

Modern Day Magi said...

hi theden,
sorry its been a while but as mary is a subject which is fairly sensitive between Catholics and protestants I wanted to considder my next comment instead of just 'firing from the hip'.

Also, this isn’t my personal interpretation. What I am writing is the interpretation taught by the Catholic Church (some of the stuff I write is my own personal interpretation but most of it I’ve read or heard before).

This statement gladens my heart. One should always be preparred to test the sermons/teachings of any pastor/church against scripture.
"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

As to mary being venerated, I know we will disagree and I dont want to turn this into an arguement.
“Behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed” (Luke 1:48)

The Catholic Church is following Scripture when we venerate her for she will be called blessed for the rest of eternity. She says in Luke that she is not an ordinary woman.

But Jesus says "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
- Luke 11:27-28

Id be interested to hear more about the 'Queen of heaven' verses buit in response to you using the example of the servants going to Mary and her pointing them to Jesus in John 2. This is Jesus' first miracle chronologically, the servant would not have known of His power. Also (I know we will dissagree here) another important fact of note is Mary was alive here and they spoke to her, not preyed. I know the Catholic church teached that she asscended to heaven without death, but this is not in the Bible, I dont considder the apocrapher (sorry about miss spelling) to be scripture.
When ever we are told or instructed how to pray it is always to the Father, not to Mary.

I have to go now my wife is getting root cannal, but i will be back soonish.
take it easy mate (Aussie farewell) and ill chat again soon.

MDM

TheDen said...

Hey MDM,

Sorry that it takes me so long to respond to your posts. I've been on the road traveling for the last few days. I spent some time in Washington, D.C. Unfortunately, my daughter gave me a bout of the flu and I didn't get to see much. I just went to the conference and then spent the rest of the time in bed.

Anyhow, regarding Luke 11: 27-28, I did respond to your thoughts in my previous post:

"Regarding Luke 11: 27-28 , Jesus is not taking anything away from His mother. Instead, I think (i.e. my personal interpretation) what He’s saying is that His mother is not blessed because she nursed Him and cared for Him but rather because she “heard the word of God and observed it.” What He’s saying in Luke 28 is that we need to be like His mother and do the same thing (which is what I also noted in my post.) It’s not important that she nursed Him but rather that she heard the word of God and observed it."

Regarding the "Queen of Heaven," it refers to the Davidic line which established that the mother of the king becomes the queen.

Since Jesus is the King of Kings in Heaven and was from the Davidic Line, His Queen would be His mother, Mary.

I have attached a reference article with more detail.


http://www.osv.com/periodicals/show-article.asp?pid=1188

Modern Day Magi said...

hope you are feeling better now.
Ill check the link.
The Bible still says that "Let them praise the name of the LORD, for his name alone is exalted"
- psalm 138:2
and "O LORD, our God, other lords besides you have ruled over us, but your name alone do we honor."
- isaiah 26:13

It is prety clear that we are to exalt or honor no other name or person than Jesus. Jesus is God, mary was not. I know you are not suggesting she is a god but exalting her is unscriptural.
again I dont want to argue and I will check out the link.

Thanks again theden

MDM

TheDen said...

Hey MDM,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I do find that we can honor Mary in Scripture.

"Hail favored one! The Lord is with you." (Luke 1:28)

If the Archangel Gabriel can honor Mary then why shouldn't we?

No need to answer...just something to ponder.

Also, regarding talking to her now while she is in heaven... Why shouldn't we? We are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses and she is undoubtedly part of that cloud.

If we ask someone to pray for us now, shouldn't we ask them to pray for us when they're in heaven? If we believe that people have achieved salvation then they are not dead but rather in Heaven. If they're in Heaven, then they're prayers for us are even more powerful because they have united themselves with God.

I also don't want to argue. Just want to state my points.

Hope all is well Down Under. The weather is just starting to turn nice up this way.

Dennis

Modern Day Magi said...

I enjoy the discussion about the many details of Catholocism I am unfamiliar with. We can disagree and I hope you will never misunderstand my word as confrontational.

As to the weather its been fine in Brisbane although we are heaidng into winter soon. Further up north though there have been a few cyclones in the last month that have caused the price of bananas to go up by about 500%. not good, my 2 year old loves bananas :(

MDM

Modern Day Magi said...

The link was really helpful in understanding your position BUT (you knew it was coming ;)) I feel this is an Old Testament custom that in no longer needed or part of the Kingdom of God. God does not need a queen to advise Him or rule beside Him. Like circumscision is no longer a 'requirement' of Christians as it was a specific agreement with the Israelites, Mary as the big 'Queen Mum' doesnt really apply.

thanks again theden.

MDM